[OpenWrt-Devel] Inquery

[Rosen Penev]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 2:01 AM Daniel Golle <daniel at makrotopia.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Alberto,
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 08:32:41PM +0100, Alberto Bursi wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11/12/19 18:54, Daniel Golle wrote:
> > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 05:37:26PM +0100, WRT Burner wrote:
> > > > On 11/12/2019 15:22, Daniel Golle wrote:
> > > > > And it's even needless to say that
> > > > > replying to a spam email in which ever way will always make it worse.
> > > >
> > > > +1. There is no constructive value in replying to spam. Let's keep openwrt-devel
> > > > nice and clean.
> > > >
> > > > On 11/12/2019 15:22, Daniel Golle wrote:
> > > > > You statement "suck it" (guess what) is also an obvious
> > > > > and disgusting example of a masculist culture which hurts our community
> > > > > as a whole and I strongly believe we should not tolerate that.
> > > >
> > > > -1. This is a software development mailing list, not tumblr.com.
> > >
> > > '-1'? So I get right, you are saying it's ok to be insulting other
> > > people because this mailing list is about software development?
> > > If that's really what you wanted to say, I'm glad that's only a single
> > > individual opinion coming from an email address which has never
> > > actually been used on this mailing list.
> > > And btw, this is your first 'contribution', and it's not even about
> > > software development...
> > >
> >
> > He is just disappointed at your pointing out the "masculinist culture" in a
> > place where he expected more maturity.
>
> Maybe I don't understand this level of maturity where it can be
> alright to use language which has the only purpose to deliberately
> hurt other people. Maybe I even hope I will never get that 'mature'.
>
> I pointed out the masculinist culture a statement like his
> originates from just because that's what it is. Correct me if I'm
> getting something wrong, but "suck it" basically says, "I'm the male
> in the room here, so your rights are limited to please me sexually".
> To me is not a border-line grey-zone of overdoing political
> correctness and forcing everybody to use lots of virtue signalling
> and a very specificly coded language changing every two weeks accoring
> to fashion standards. It's not that he failed to use gender-correct
> language or wrongly assumed someones identity or any of those things
> which happen a lot without any bad intention involved.
> But what Tom wrote was **meant** as an insult.
>
> >
> > Yours is mostly SJW-speak and I'm also not fond of it, I'll explain why.
> > It is a double-edged blade.
> > In this case your definition is technically correct, we all know what "suck
> > it" implies.
> > But this highly polarizing approach to life and people can (and does,
> > especially in its dens like tumblr.com as mentioned) slippery slope into
> > full blown hate and reverse oppression, which is equally bad.
>
> I guess I partially agree with you one that. I have never visited
> tumblr nor know much about what's happening there. To me, "social
> justice" sounds like something desireable, however, I can also see that
> the fight for that is also being misused to call-out on people who
> didn't intend to do any harm to anyone in some cases.
>
> However, I don't think we need this debate here in this case, as very
> clearly "suck it" is just very obviously not nice, ie. violates the
> rule #12 "be nice to each other".
>
> >
> > I'm not impressed by your reaction here, first thing you do is a blatant
> > strawman logical fallacy and then proceed to attack him on his personal
> > values as a person without even asking to clarify his position first.
> > He just posted a single short sentence, for heaven's sake.
> >
> > This is EXACTLY an example of slippery slope into blind hate rage as I said
> > above, and exactly why this kind of polarizing categorizations and
> > statements should be avoided at all costs in a serious and sane environment.
> >
> > We should really not jump at each other's throats on a moment's notice like
> > that, especially not in a software development mailing list.
>
> I did asked for claritication, because it wasn't clear to me (see my
> reply, there are some "if"s). I didn't make any assumptions on his
> values, I was surprised and hoping that this would turn out to be just
> a case of misunderstanding each other. Simply because it's hard for me
> to imagine a setting where it would be ok to write "suck it" just
> because this is about software development (and I still fail to follow
> that logic, maybe you can explain that to me off-list).
>
> I also agree that I don't want people to the scared to be super correct
> and this is not the place to discuss subtle language details, for the
> exact same reason that we will loose potential contributors.
>
> Needless to say that WRT_Burner showed up out of nowhere (let me guess
> what 'burner' means in that choice of a name)
It's a spam message. The response by Tom may have been heavy but it's
nothing to cause commotion over.

That is to say, it was not serious. There is no need for a serious
response to it.
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Daniel
>
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